Thursday, July 4, 2013

The Inexcusable Sinas Modern Orthodox (MO) for Hareidim



The Inexcusable sinas Modern Orthodox (MO) for Hareidim !

My Response to Eliyahu Fink (Eli) ‏@efink
Satmar Matzah is New York Times Front Page News

When first reading it I did a double take. Is this Eliyahu Fink (Eli) or did I mistakenly wander over to Dovbear or Failled Messaiah The Successful Bigot?

Alas, it is indeed (Eli). Leaving aside for the moment the linkage that Eli creates, tenuous at best and defamatory at worst, let us instead adopt Eli's formula and see where it leads us.

It has been said that Jewish history is quite simple.

There is an old fable which depicts the Jewish condition. The drinking water all the animals depended upon was being contaminated. Nobody was able to identify the culprit. Finally, the animal leaders met, examined the facts, and sentenced a poor, hapless goat to death for the crime.

The goat protested that it was unfair to blame him for something he could not have done. He had a perfect alibi: He had never even been near the water.

“You’re right,” replied the wolf. “Maybe it’s not your fault. but we have to kill you.”



In the Middle Ages, when plagues spread throughout Europe, the Jews were always blamed. “The Jews poisoned the wells!” was the refrain that led to the butchery of tens of thousands of our forebears. Whenever there was a problem afflicting the general population, Jews were the scapegoat.

Ever since those dark days, Jews have been attempting to prove that they are normal, productive, loyal citizens. Usually for naught.

“You’re right,” the anti-Semites inevitably respond, “but we hate you anyway.”

Back at the very beginning, the nochosh was victorious with his venomous power of leitzonus, scoffing to Chava about the Ribbono Shel Olam. To persuade her to sin, the snake mocked holiness. Ever since, cynicism and scorn have been realities we must deal with. Kedushah, holiness, has for eternity encountered contemptuous resistance. The face of the opponent may be charming, but the motivations are those of the snake.

The sinas am ha’aretz for a talmid chochom is nothing new. As long as there have been Yidden doing mitzvos, they have been scorned by others. Under the guise of concern over social welfare and with calls to “share the burden,” those who fear Hashem have been accused of being anti-social parasites almost forever.

Rabi Akiva (Pesachim 49b) said regarding himself, that in his earlier years as a shepherd when he was not yet familiar with Torah, his hatred of a talmid chochom was intense: “If I saw a talmid chochom,” he recalled, “I wished to bite him like a donkey (whose bite hurts more than that of a dog).”

In telling the story of how Rochel, daughter of the fabulously wealthy Kalba Savua, chose the shepherd, Akiva, for a husband despite her father’s protestations, the Gemara (Kesubos 62b) depicts him as a kind and humble person.

Tosafos points out that although he was gentle and compassionate, he still wished he could bite another human being with the aim of causing him great pain. Despite the fact that he was a shepherd, engaged in a vocation that requires tenderness, and notwithstanding his nature as a good, kind, sympathetic and loving individual, he was consumed with hatred for talmidei chachomim.

Such is the malice of genial, gentle am haaratzim towards talmidei chochomim. That is the way it has always been ever since the Torah was given on Har Sinai, and that is the way it is today.

So get ready for the onslaught, because here we go again.In the days before the combine harvester came along wheat was generally harvested before it was ripe (chayei odom klal 128) in order to prevent wheat shattering,
then it was threshed separately after drying, (for p’shutim it was dried in the field and for shmure it was watched while it dried).

Since the combine came along this changed, the wheat has to be dead and dry before harvest, so it can be cut and threshed at once.
This is where the problem starts, in the eastern states where it rains during the harvest season you know for sure it rained on ripe wheat, so its only good b’shaas hadchak (when there’s no other Joice) (t’shuvos meil tz’duku 69).

Wheat has to dry down to 13% moisture before its stored or it will spoil, A farmer that has available a drier will harvest his wheat at 20% moisture and take on the extra cost of drying in order to save the quality of his wheat, from this stage the rain will hurt the crop and it can sprout which is chometz.
That’s the benefit of growing wheat in Arizona, it doesn’t rain in the day’s when the wheat is mature till it’s dry for harvest and storage.

But Eli Fink #efink goes on to tell us that the trip to the southeast for wheat is really about the continued competitiveness for leadership of the sect between Reb Aharon Teilebaum, the older brother and Reb Zalman Leib.

The go to guy on understanding these matters is sociologist Dr. Samuel Heilman of New York who has a knack for breaking things down to the level of the absurd explains to the Times that this aspect of the competition between the two is one saying to the other, “my Matzo is more kosher than yours.”

So what do we know after reading this story?

This is what Eli has to say:
"Now I think I can understand why the NY Times found this so interesting. Growing wheat in Arizona so it doesn’t rain on the wheat? It’s irrational. It is religion without reason. It’s exotic, archaic, and mystical. It’s not the Judaism that so many of us practice. It’s a Judaism that almost purposely does not make rational sense and is purely mystical. That’s front page news"

Instead of focusing on Dikduk Hamitzvos Eli Fink looks to glorify machlokes during the 3 weeks. leave it up to the MO rabbis to turn any davar shebbikdusha into a machlokes and chilul hashem. This is pure Sinas chinom! Perhaps the Successful Bigot and #efink trying to one up each other in disguise, over who can spread a chilul hashem who can show the world how bad the Charedim are.

"Inexcusable sinas Modern Orthodox for Hareidim"!

63 comments:

  1. The web is littered with the anti torah haters its nice to see you stand up for the Torah

    ReplyDelete
  2. Excellent post!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Lovely. Here's a guy who calls himself Daas Torah and it seems his sole purpose in life is to argue against me --->

    ReplyDelete
  4. i always feel like a new man when i argue with you. my raison d'etre, joi d'vivre

    ReplyDelete
  5. Replies
    1. i go to two professionals, ben and jerry's

      Delete
  6. don't waste your life! This guy was a stanch Weberman defender so I guess he's moved to greener pastures

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In that case I am honored.

      Delete
  7. I wish every1 would stop spewing sinas chinum on all sides. 4get labels we r all#torah Jews trying 2 get better every day

    ReplyDelete
  8. the good news is youre giving purpose to his life

    ReplyDelete
  9. Your the best thing that happened to twitter!!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. You hit the nail on the head, you described these haters for what they are. I would love for someone to expose this so called Rabbi @efink

    ReplyDelete
  11. if one can't respond without ad hominems, it shows they feel threatened by the validity of your argument.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you again Rabbi Zev, Start working on a article titled "Who Is Rabbi Eli Fink?"

    ReplyDelete
  13. who exactly are u

    ReplyDelete
  14. You should both be ashamed of yourselves. take your childish fight off twitter and stop causing a chillul hashem!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have nothing to be ashamed of. This is a troll account with no redeeming value.

      Delete
    2. Danny G Do yourself a favor. Don't take him seriously.

      Delete
    3. efink I don't know the details of this battle, nor do I care. I care about achdus. Twitter isn't the place for infighting. #1Torah1People

      Delete
  15. Lovely. Here's a guy who calls himself Daas Torah and it seems his sole purpose in life is to argue against me ---> @1daastorah.

    ReplyDelete
  16. he likes to attack me too. Called me an apikores hes just sad. fights all those who don't submit to his philosophy...

    ReplyDelete
  17. You should both be ashamed of yourselves. take your childish fight off twitter and stop causing a chillul hashem! 1Torah

    ReplyDelete
  18. daastorah did u attend citi field

    ReplyDelete
  19. Real Kanoi Nothing to inquire. He is a Weberman supporter and calls yakovhorowitz a bigot. No additional information is necessary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hmm... If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.

      Delete
  20. efink; yakovhorowitz darchei Noam is radinskys elementary?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So here is typical of the #AntiHareidi efink can't answer an argument then call him vile names + shift the subject to #yakovhorowitz

      Delete
  21. RealKanoi Well, R' Radinsky took over some of the administration of yakovhorowitz's elementary school. So kind of.

    ReplyDelete
  22. efink: and agav yakovhorowitz doesn't seem very MO if u ask me

    ReplyDelete
  23. RealKanoi: Shychus? yakovhorowitz

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. why r u changing subject when the topic is My Response to Eli Fink

      Delete
  24. efink: in reference to 1daastorah written piece

    ReplyDelete
  25. Real Kanoi Why are you paying attention to him?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow! instead efink responding to his ignorance in Shmure Matzoh he brings in Weberman YHorowitz!

      Delete
  26. efink: do u consider urself MO

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RealKanoi Sometimes. The world I group in is basically gone. MO is closest to it.

      Delete
    2. efink meaning like ur father and my father dehaynu old KBY and old sharei Torah

      Delete
    3. RealKanoi And old NIRC and old Torah V'Daas and old everything...

      Delete
    4. efink: I hear, that's still far from MO

      Delete
    5. RealKanoi Not so far. You'd be surprised. My boys are in an MO school in LA. Very, very close to my family and personal hashkafos.

      Delete
    6. efink: which school? maybe not so far from MO in the real real sense which in itself is very rare today

      Delete
    7. Yavneh. Not sure what you mean by "real sense." Either way MO is not a bad word.

      Delete
    8. I'm saying MO lichatcheela not the MO that allows women to wear pants

      Delete
    9. Not rare at all. Go to Teaneck-Bergenfield on Shabbos.

      Delete
  27. Typical from MO tactic “If you can't convince them, confuse them.”

    ReplyDelete
  28. efink: Address the topic "The Inexcusable sinas Modern Orthodox (MO) for Hareidim" instead of shouting Weberman Supporter

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My answer? How can *I* be making machlokes when only one extremist sect is initiating this? THEY Are making the machlokes.

      Delete
    2. can u clarify ur attack on Hareidim who want to have shmura Matzoh as they whish

      Delete
    3. Wasn't an attack. If I attack you will know.

      Delete
  29. I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think ... they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left ...Margaret Tatcher

    ReplyDelete
  30. There were many communities in Europe that were Mehader to cut the wheat on a day that was very dry, and even to wait a few days where there was no rain. See, for example, the Lubavitcher Rebbe's description of wheat-cutting in Lubavitch - from www.chabad.org/2846.

    Reb Zalman had a meticulous system for choosing the field with the highest quality wheat, and for choosing the day and hour of the harvest. The conditions for the harvest were: a clear and bright day on which the sun shone in its full intensity, and that no rain had fallen in the previous three days. The set hours for harvesting the shemurah were from noon to two o’clock or two-thirty in the afternoon.

    The reason is probably because they didn't want to harvest any wheat that had rain on it, because once the wheat is cut, it is Halachically susceptible to becoming Chametz.
    It's not much of a stretch to assume that this practice of cutting wheat from a dry region, instead of a region that often gets rain in the summer, like New York, is just an extension of that.
    The question is: Why would a Rabbi like E. Fink assume that the correct explanation is the one given by Heilman, who is notorious for his scornful attitude towards Chasidim, instead of digging a little and being Dan L'Kaf Z'chus?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Here's the thing with Eli Fink: Nobody is asking you to adopt Chumras you don't want to adopt. But, for some reason, Eli Fink seem to have this need to negate the positive motivations that other people have for their own religious observances. Eli Fink is like the Chareidim who say that they know why the women of the wall want to daven. You don't understand Satmar Chassidim, so at least have the courtesy to respect their own, self-attributed, motivations, and not Sam Heilman's assumptions

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My life experience has told me that there is rarely anything special or holy or religious when it comes to Satmar chumros.

      Delete
    2. Chareidi E. Fink: My life experience has told me that there is rarely anything special or holy or religious when it comes to feminist prayers

      Delete
  32. If anyone is still reading this, they should note that E. Fink has admitted that, in spite of the fact that there is evidence for a longstanding tradition that supports the Satmar Chumra, his pre-existing assumptions are driving him to conclude that this is a case of one-upsmanship

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you know anything about the Satmar A and Satmar Z war?

      Delete
    2. Yes plenty...They are talking about harvesting - they go to Arizona, and harvest the wheat, after making sure that no rain has fallen on that field for a while. You can't grow wheat without rain

      Delete
  33. Daastorah how can you explain taking along a new York times reporter for cutting wheat if not for unnecessary chumros and then going around telling everyone that my brother is eating chumets on paisach
    Eli fink at least MO is seeing it the way it really is

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thats the best explanation you could figure out for the start of #9days?

      Well at least you should certainly know that both Satmar camps embrace the same chumra!

      However here is the explanation I came up:

      1. “Shmurah m’shaas ketzira” according to simple “Shilchan-Urech” 467.5 means that as soon as the wheat is finished growing even before harvesting should not get in contact with rain water.

      2. "Rashba which forms the basis of the Satmar chumra (stringency).

      3. In the days before the combine harvester came along wheat was generally harvested before it was ripe (chayei odom klal 128) in order to prevent wheat shattering,
      then it was threshed separately after drying, (for p’shutim it was dried in the field and for shmure it was watched while it dried).

      Since the combine came along this changed, the wheat has to be dead and dry before harvest, so it can be cut and threshed at once.
      This is where the problem starts, in the eastern states where it rains during the harvest season you know for sure it rained on ripe wheat, so its only good b’shaas hadchak (when there’s no other Joice) (t’shuvos meil tz’duku 69).

      Wheat has to dry down to 13% moisture before its stored or it will spoil, A farmer that has available a drier will harvest his wheat at 20% moisture and take on the extra cost of drying in order to save the quality of his wheat, from this stage the rain will hurt the crop and it can sprout which is chometz.
      That’s the benefit of growing wheat in Arizona, it doesn’t rain in the day’s when the wheat is mature till it’s dry for harvest and storage.

      Delete
  34. #efink, makes it look as if he learned something but in fact he missed Shulchan Aruch או"ח תס"ז ס"ה. Where the Mechaber quotes the Rashba as following:
    שו"ע (או"ח תסז, ה) - דגן שבמחובר שנתייבש לגמרי ואינו צריך ליניקה, כמאן דמנח בכדא דמי ומקבל חימוץ אם ירדו עליו גשמים.

    My doctor says: fever is a sign of infection.
    Our Torah states: sprouting in wheat is a sign of chumetz, due to the water that saturated the grain after maturity.

    לשיטת הרשב"א החטים הנקצרים ממקומות שפתו עליהם גשמים כשאינם צריכים לקרקע - כאן דמנח בכדא. - חמ @JewishPress @MajorNewsTweets

    ReplyDelete
  35. Alexander Rapaport to Eli Fink:“Shmurah m’shaas ketzira” according to simple “Shilchan-Urech” 467.5 means that as soon as the wheat is finished growing even before harvesting should not get in contact with rain water. I guess before bashing others one should make sure not come out looking like the fool…
    and yes even according to science wheat kernels could start to germinate even before harvesting…
    and the truth is there is nothing new in this “Shmurah m’shaas ketzira” in Israel it never rains weeks before the harvest…
    sorry…

    ReplyDelete
  36. #efink is not seeking an answer to a perfectly legitimate question "is arizona wheat a "חומרה או מנהג טעות ! Eli Fink has admitted that, in spite of the fact that there is evidence for a longstanding tradition that supports the Satmar Chumra, his pre-existing assumptions are driving him to conclude that this is a case of one-upsmanship.

    1) @AlexRapaport to Eli Fink #efink:“Shmurah m’shaas ketzira” according to simple “Shilchan-Urech” 467.5 means that as soon as the wheat is finished growing even before harvesting should not get in contact with rain water. I guess before bashing others one should make sure not come out looking like the fool…
    and yes even according to science wheat kernels could start to germinate even before harvesting…
    and the truth is there is nothing new in this “Shmurah m’shaas ketzira” in Israel it never rains weeks before the harvest…
    sorry…
    2) In the days before the combine harvester came along wheat was generally harvested before it was ripe (chayei odom klal 128) in order to prevent wheat shattering,
    then it was threshed separately after drying, (for p’shutim it was dried in the field and for shmure it was watched while it dried).

    Since the combine came along this changed, the wheat has to be dead and dry before harvest, so it can be cut and threshed at once.
    This is where the problem starts, in the eastern states where it rains during the harvest season you know for sure it rained on ripe wheat, so its only good b’shaas hadchak (when there’s no other Joice) (t’shuvos meil tz’duku 69).

    Wheat has to dry down to 13% moisture before its stored or it will spoil, A farmer that has available a drier will harvest his wheat at 20% moisture and take on the extra cost of drying in order to save the quality of his wheat, from this stage the rain will hurt the crop and it can sprout which is chometz.
    That’s the benefit of growing wheat in Arizona, it doesn’t rain in the day’s when the wheat is mature till it’s dry for harvest and storage.

    Did he ever address the specifics of " a perfectly legitimate question "is arizona wheat a "חומרה או מנהג טעות " ? Of Course Not!

    Here is what Eli Fink did have to say:

    - "My life experience has told me that there is rarely anything special or holy or religious when it comes to Satmar chumros"

    - "Now I think I can understand why the NY Times found this so interesting. Growing wheat in Arizona so it doesn’t rain on the wheat? It’s irrational. It is religion without reason. It’s exotic, archaic, and mystical. It’s not the Judaism that so many of us practice. It’s a Judaism that almost purposely does not make rational sense and is purely mystical. That’s front page news"

    - " Weberman Supporter"

    That's some one who calls himself a Rabbi?

    Instead of focusing on" a perfectly legitimate question "is arizona wheat a "חומרה או מנהג טעות "
    Eli Fink looks to glorify machlokes during the 3 weeks. and turn any Davar Shebbikdusha into a Machloketh and Chilul hashem.
    This is pure Sinas chinom!

    My dear friend #benwaxman do you now undersatnd the "perfectly legitimate question "is arizona wheat a "חומרה או מנהג טעות " ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. all they can do is Hate there is no rationality to their argument. Its pure Sinas am haaretz. They cant answer because they know they are wrong and deep down they dont even believe what they say they are beholden to the Moder orthodox shitah.

      Delete

Comment Rules
1. No anonymous comments.
2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.
3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.
4. Try to argue using facts and logic.
5. Do not lie.

***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***